Overview

On this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, John Jantsch interviews Mark Kingsley, renowned brand strategist, consultant, and author of Brands in the Age of AI. Mark shares how AI is reshaping the landscape of branding—putting pressure on brands to act ethically, think humanely, and redefine the meaning of differentiation, trust, and emotional connection. Mark and John discuss why algorithm‑chasing alone leads to commoditization, how true brand value now lies in human insight, and the new risks and opportunities for companies of every size in an AI‑driven world.

About the Guest

Mark Kingsley is a brand strategist, consultant, and author with deep expertise guiding global organizations through digital transformation. His latest book, Brands in the Age of AI, is a practical guide for leaders, marketers, and entrepreneurs navigating the new rules of branding, trust, and differentiation in an AI‑powered landscape.

• Website: malcontent.com

• Book: Brands in the Age of AI

Actionable Insights

• AI is a force multiplier: It amplifies both good and bad brand behaviors, putting greater pressure on brands to act ethically and humanely.

• Don’t chase the algorithm—brands that focus only on efficiency and optimization become replaceable and lose emotional connection.

• Humanizing brands means moving beyond calculative thinking to contemplative, meditative thinking; focus on flourishing, not just transactions.

• Trust is at risk in the AI era: Brands must be transparent, consistent, and prioritize removing friction for the customer—not just for the company.

• The best AI‑driven storytelling isn’t just a sequence of events—it creates moments of transformation, transcendence, and genuine recognition (“I see you”).

• Integration and database silos are a real challenge for delivering seamless, frictionless experiences; the future belongs to brands that can connect data and remove barriers.

• Small businesses can leverage AI to “level up” and deliver greater value, but must avoid eroding value through simple efficiency or automation.

• The real opportunity is delivering more human, more insightful, and more emotionally resonant experiences—AI should be a tool for that, not a replacement for it.

Great Moments (with Timestamps)

• 00:47 – Is AI Changing the Rules or Raising the Stakes?

  Why AI is a force multiplier for both good and bad brand behavior.

• 01:50 – Can AI Actually Humanize Brands?

  Why contemplative thinking and ethical choices matter more than ever.

• 04:54 – Trust, Technology, and the Pendulum of Progress

  How brands can rebuild trust in an AI‑driven world.

• 06:56 – Don’t Chase the Algorithm

  Why marketers focused only on optimization are the first to be replaced.

• 09:12 – Storytelling, Recognition, and Transformation

  Real‑world examples of brands using AI to create “aha” moments.

• 13:42 – The Brand AI Integration Model

  How database integration (or the lack thereof) shapes brand experience.

• 18:23 – The Human Skills That Matter Most Now

  Why leadership, education, and redefined goals are critical in the age of AI.

• 19:35 – Risks and Opportunities for Small Businesses

  How small firms can use AI to punch above their weight (and where they must be careful).

• 21:29 – Delivering More Value, Not Just Efficiency

  How to thrive by focusing on insight, innovation, and customer outcome.

Insights

“If all you do is chase the algorithm, you’re replaceable by AI. Real brand value is in the human insight, not just the optimization.”

“AI is a force multiplier—it can help you deliver more human and more meaningful experiences, but only if you choose to use it that way.”

“Trust is built by removing friction for the customer, not just for the company.”

“Storytelling is about transformation and recognition, not just a series of events.”

“Small businesses can use AI to compete with the big players—but value comes from insight, not just automation.”

Transcript

John Jantsch (00:01.08)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Mark Kingsley. He's a renowned brand strategist, consultant and author with deep experience in guiding global organizations through digital transformation. His latest book we're going to talk about today, Brands in the Age of AI. It's an essential guide for leaders, marketers and entrepreneurs seeking to thrive in a landscape where AI is rapidly changing consumer expectations, brand trust and the very nature frankly of that key brand element of differentiation. So Mark, welcome to the show.

Mark Kingsley (00:37.992)

Pleasure to be here. Thank you.

John Jantsch (00:40.076)

Let's just let's just hit it right off the bat. How is AI changing the fundamental rules of branding, if you will?

Mark Kingsley (00:47.55)

Does it change the rules or does it put more pressure on people's behavior? It puts more pressure on what I would, know, ethically I would call like better behavior. Because AI does multiply. It's a force multiplier for the ability to extract more attention and to extract more profit from brands and transactions to extract more attention and etc.

But I see it also as an opportunity to, in the book I speak about like connecting with the I thou connection, me I and you thou and seeing each other with open eyes, seeing the other person as a person, not as a target, as a member of an audience or a potential transaction. And AI does.

offer these opportunities. It just comes down to like what is the choice that people are going to

John Jantsch (01:50.602)

We'll say a little more about that because I mean, you're talking about it as a force to actually humanize some marketing and there certainly are people that are saying just suggesting just the opposite. It's turning marketing into a more robotic exercise.

Mark Kingsley (01:56.211)

Yes.

Mark Kingsley (02:00.766)

Mm-hmm.

Mark Kingsley (02:05.756)

Yeah, well, it's very easy. In the beginning of the book, I talk about the way in which I'm approaching it. And I do it differently than most other people that speak about AI. Like if you go to LinkedIn, there were volumes and volumes of gibberish every day about the best prompts and how this company is going to market cap, blah, blah, you know, all that stuff. That's what I call calculative thinking. And that's basically figuring out how am I going to get from here to there. It's logistics, right?

John Jantsch (02:22.498)

Right, right.

Mark Kingsley (02:35.742)

And I'm proposing that we also enter it's also an opportunity for us to enter into what I call a more contemplative or meditative thinking which is I am I am going to consider the way that AI is going to impact my relationship and our relationship to each other to time to history to society to knowledge all of that and so that this is it's more of like an inflection point It's very easy. We are rewarded

for good calculative thinking. We are rewarded with year-end bonuses. Name any domain, any kind of industry, you're rewarded for returns. But that only goes so far. mean, aren't we on this planet? Don't we offer products and services in such a way to encourage the flourishing of human beings? One would hope.

John Jantsch (03:31.918)

Sorry to chuckle there, but I had forgotten all about that.

Mark Kingsley (03:36.486)

That's the thing. It's easy to forget, right? Because we get caught up in our professionalism. We get caught up in our engagement. We get caught up in results. And those are things that we can track. How does one track an emotional... mean, brands in theory, everyone that works in branding talks about brands making an emotional connection to people. So that's hard to track. That's hard to rationalize on a spreadsheet at the end of the day. And that's hard. So it's...

I know that I am shouting in the wind. I know that, right? But, you know, at least someone is doing that. It's I'm like the, you know, the classic myth of the little boy in the dyke and trying to keep his finger in the dyke trying to keep the sea at bay.

John Jantsch (04:25.304)

Well, it's interesting because, you know, I've been doing this for 30 some years. And I mean, I've seen a lot of new technologies come along and you see this huge, you see this huge swing towards what, what the promise of this technology is. And then inevitably you see the swing back to like, here's how it failed us. So one of the most important words, I think you talked about emotional connection, but certainly trust is a huge part of that. So what role does AI play in

Mark Kingsley (04:51.133)

You

John Jantsch (04:54.19)

enhancing trust as opposed to eroding it. You know, you hear people saying all the time now, one of the negatives about AI is I don't know what to trust because am I seeing something that's real or not? So I think there's going to be this swing both ways to like not trusting and then how do we get back to humanizing the emotional connection?

Mark Kingsley (05:15.729)

This is humanity's relationship to technology in general, regardless of whether it's AI or it be computers. could be the... I was just gonna say that, exactly, right? So we all rush to new technological innovations and advancements, and we see the benefits that it's goin