Do We Still Need Carbon Capture & Storage? | Ep250: Emmanouil Kakaras

Cleaning Up with Michael Liebreich
Cleaning Up with Michael LiebreichMar 25, 2026

Why It Matters

MHI’s combined focus on hydrogen, ammonia, and CCS demonstrates a realistic pathway to decarbonise existing power assets, influencing investment decisions and policy frameworks worldwide.

Key Takeaways

  • CCS remains essential despite industry skepticism and criticism.
  • Mitsubishi Heavy Industries targets carbon neutrality by 2040 using hydrogen and CCS.
  • Gas turbines achieve 1700°C combustion for higher efficiency with advanced alloys.
  • Ammonia combustion presents nitrogen‑oxide challenges but shows recent progress.
  • Dual strategy: zero‑carbon fuels and end‑of‑pipe capture for decarbonisation.

Summary

The episode centers on whether carbon capture and storage (CCS) remains a viable tool in the global energy transition, featuring Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) technology evangelist Emmanouil Kakaras. Host Michael Liebreich frames climate change as fundamentally an engineering challenge and uses the conversation to explore MHI’s broad portfolio—from gas turbines to hydrogen and ammonia solutions—while underscoring the company’s commitment to carbon neutrality by 2040.

Kakaras outlines MHI’s technical roadmap: ultra‑high‑temperature gas turbines operating at 1,700 °C, advanced alloy coatings, and low‑NOx combustion systems that preserve efficiency. The firm pursues two parallel decarbonisation tracks—adopting zero‑carbon fuels such as hydrogen and ammonia, and deploying end‑of‑pipe CCS to strip CO₂ from existing fossil‑fuel fleets. Since 2019 MHI has pledged a 50 % reduction in scope 1‑3 emissions by 2030, integrating hydrogen‑fired turbines and pioneering ammonia combustion despite its inherent nitrogen‑oxide hurdles.

Notable moments include Liebreich’s reminder that “most emissions are caused by the stuff we build,” and Kakaras’ claim that MHI was among the first to develop a hydrogen‑fired turbine. He also cites the company’s 78,000‑person global workforce and its Japanese‑quality manufacturing ethos as competitive advantages. The discussion highlights recent breakthroughs in ammonia‑fuel combustion that mitigate NOx formation, a critical step toward viable, carbon‑neutral power generation.

The implications are clear: CCS and advanced turbine technologies will be indispensable for meeting near‑term climate targets, especially where renewable penetration is limited. Investors and policymakers should watch MHI’s dual‑path strategy, as it offers a pragmatic bridge between existing fossil infrastructure and a future powered by clean fuels, potentially shaping standards for global decarbonisation efforts.

Original Description

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Emmanouil Kakaras, engineer, academic, and Senior Advisor at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries EMEA, for a grounded, technical conversation about the intersection of emissions and engineering: gas turbines pushing the limits of thermodynamics, the trade-offs between hydrogen, ammonia, and synthetic fuels, and why carbon capture keeps coming back into the conversation.
Kakaras draws on decades in both academia and industry to explain how decisions actually get made inside large engineering companies, and why the energy transition isn’t about picking a single “winner,” but deploying a mix of solutions at scale.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live
Links and more:
• Mitsubishi Heavy Industries: https://www.mhi.com/
• Iron-Air Man - Ep144: Mateo Jaramillo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih0gBGCkROM
• Cracking the Geothermal Code - Ep58: John Redfern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU8TDupVvjM
• The Dane who Harnessed the Wind - Ep139: Henrik Stiesdal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rjuZ_aCsFQ
• Ep121: Prof. Rob Miller "Jet-Zero Hero": https://youtu.be/zqMHiyyWlZo
• Padeswood CCS: Decarbonizing cement production in the UK https://padeswoodccs.co.uk
• Primetals: A decade of pioneering green steel solutions
• Large Heat Pumps and the future of district heating
• The geothermal plant behind Europe’s lithium push
• What role will ‘new nuclear’ play in the energy transition?
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
00:37 - Introduction
04:55 - Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
08:30 - More Than Gas Turbines?
12:00 - Hydrogen
16:00 - Ammonia
20:00 - Energy Economics
24:45 - Carbon Capture
29:00 - Hard To Abate Sectors
36:00 - Green Steel
42:00 - Large-Scale Batteries
46:10 - Heat Pumps
49:00 - Geothermal
54:00 - Nuclear
58:00 - Synthetic Fuels
01:02:30 - Methanol
01:08:45 - Outro

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