Otherppl with Brad Listi
1027. Luke Kennard
Why It Matters
The episode highlights how creative work is both a personal and public performance, revealing why rejection feels so intimate for actors and writers alike. In an era of publishing oversaturation and AI‑driven content, Kennard’s insights stress the importance of resilience and community for sustaining literary culture, making the discussion especially relevant for anyone navigating a creative career today.
Key Takeaways
- •Black Bag follows a 37‑year‑old actor in a psychology experiment.
- •Novel mixes high‑concept comedy with masculinity critique.
- •Kennard compares actor rejection to writer's delayed rejections.
- •AI‑generated book surge makes literary discovery harder.
- •UK arts funding lag fuels novel's commentary on failure.
Pulse Analysis
The Other People Show welcomes poet‑novelist Luke Kennard to discuss his latest work, Black Bag. The novel follows a 37‑year‑old actor who volunteers to become a silent, black‑leather bag in a university psychology experiment modeled on a 1967 Oregon State study. Kennard blends absurdist comedy with a serious examination of contemporary masculinity, using the bizarre premise to ask how identity survives when stripped of voice. By setting the story in present‑day England, he also probes the precarious life of gig‑stage performers.
Throughout the conversation Kennard draws sharp parallels between the relentless audition cycle actors endure and the slower, yet equally painful, rejection rhythm writers face. He notes that while writing has a low financial barrier—anyone can start with a laptop—actors must secure permission to perform, making each ‘yes’ feel like a lifeline. This tension fuels the narrator’s stubborn determination, a trait Kennard sees as both virtue and vice. He also reflects on the self‑delusion many creators maintain, a mental fuel that keeps them producing despite scarce market response.
The discussion widens to the current literary marketplace, where AI‑generated titles have pushed annual US publications past four million, flooding readers and diluting discoverability. Kennard laments the scarcity of arts funding in the UK, arguing that systemic neglect amplifies the novel’s themes of failure and resilience. By spotlighting the psychological ‘mere exposure’ effect—how repeated presence can turn discomfort into affection—Black Bag offers a metaphor for how marginalized artists might eventually find an audience. For writers, actors, and cultural policymakers, the episode underscores the need for sustainable support structures.
Episode Description
Luke Kennard is the author of the novel Black Bag, available from Zando. It is the official March 2026 pick of the Otherppl Book Club. Kennard is an award-winning poet and novelist. In 2014 he was named one of the Next Generation Poets by the Poetry Book Society in their once-per-decade list. His collection, Cain, was shortlisted for the International Dylan Thomas Prize and described by Alan Hollinghurst as "the cleverest and funniest thing I've read this year," and Notes on the Sonnets won the Forward prize for Best Poetry Collection in 2021. The Transition, his first novel, was a BBC Radio 4 Book at Bedtime and longlisted for the Desmond Elliott Prize. The Book of Jonah, his new poetry collection, will be published by Picador in 2025. Luke Kennard lives in Birmingham, UK, where he teaches Creative Writing at Birmingham University. *** Otherppl with Brad Listi is a weekly podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Available where podcasts are available: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, etc. Get How to Write a Novel, the debut audio course from DeepDive. 50+ hours of never-before-heard insight, inspiration, and instruction from dozens of today's most celebrated contemporary authors. Subscribe to Brad's email newsletter. Support the show on Patreon Merch Instagram TikTok Bluesky Email the show: letters [at] otherppl [dot] com The podcast is a proud affiliate partner of Bookshop, working to support local, independent bookstores.
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